Got x2... few ?????

[bluebanshee]

Just got an 89' with:
coffman pipe
aluminum waterbox
skat SS impeller
toploader
rideplate
mikuni carb w/flame arrester
west coast head (do they only come in higher compression?)
aluminum bars
oil block-off

Back cylinder is low (116 psi) and front is 135 psi. I hope to rebuild it this week and have it in the water soon.
Took it out just to see how it ran and it ran like a turd, just like one I rode a few years ago that had a pipe. How should this thing run once I rebuild it? How would it compare to a stock SJ 701?
Cheapest I found a wiseco rebuild kit was $179 w/gaskets + shipping. Was told the motor is stock bore and never rebuilt, from "said" original owner.
If I'm happy with it once its rebuild I'll smooth out the top deck and paint it, and likely do tubbies, if not I'm either selling the ski or parting it out. Just curious how these 650's should run....

[ADDict]

I think you definitely need a rebuild, or at least a head gasket! I think any Westcoast head you have should raise the compression from stock, which should be around 150.
With all the mods you have that ski should hit good, and not run like a turd!

[X2guy]

Pull the cylinder off first. Have a look to see how worn it is and if possible measure the bore. You can usually find a cheap pair of std. size pistons on ebay.
As Addict said it could also be the head gasket. WC heads use special gaskets as the domes are sealed with orings. Check the orings. The gaskets are hard to find so I have always cleaned the old one up well and sprayed on permatex spray on gasket to reuse it.

[bluebanshee]

Damn, I didn't know those heads used special gaskets, I have the stock head for it too that I can always use. Maybe just mill the stocker a bit? Yeah I knew it needed rebuilt when I looked at it because I took my compression tester with me. I will just do .25 or .5mm.... Thanks for the info, I didn't know that.

[shawn_NJ]

Even with a pipe and carb, a 650 is not very impressive. I ran almost the exact same setup you have on 2 X-2's for years. It is not even in the same league as my 701 X2 with a bpipe.

[bluebanshee]

Where can I get the o-rings for the head? Now I don't know if I even want to rebuild the 650 if its still not going to have much power :(( After machine work and pistons, I'd have $250 in it, and if its still not that much faster I'm not sure that I could get much for the motor.

After reading, I may consider rebuilding with cast pistons although I've always used wiseco's in non-watercraft.

[bluebanshee]

Anyone know how comparable this ski would be to a stock waveblaster 1?

[ADDict]

It won't ever be in the league of a 701.. Not sure about the blasters as I've only ridden a mod blaster, but I'd say it's not close.
The 650 with high compression can be a fun ski, however you would be money ahead to put a 750 in it. For the 250 you'll have into the rebuild, you could be well on your way to a nice 750. A nicely tuned 750 in that X2 is a totally different ride. I had a bolt-on 650 last year and loved it, however I won't own another 650 X2, ever. Like I said, it will be a fun ski to ride, just don't hop on anyones 780 B-pipe'd X2 because you won't want to ride yours anymore!!
It all just depends on what you want to spend on it. If your content with something to ride, just fix it. If your always going to want more power like most of us, you need to go ahead with the 750 in my opinion.

[shawn_NJ]

You could look around for another motor. I tried selling a good running 145/145 650 motor for $150 and I couldnt sell it...there not worth much. There was a few 750 motors in the $500 range that are a much better platform to build up. Doesnt seem like a good investment of $250 to sink into a 650 though.

[shawn_NJ]

It won't ever be in the league of a 701.. Not sure about the blasters as I've only ridden a mod blaster, but I'd say it's not close.
The 650 with high compression can be a fun ski, however you would be money ahead to put a 750 in it. For the 250 you'll have into the rebuild, you could be well on your way to a nice 750. A nicely tuned 750 in that X2 is a totally different ride. I had a bolt-on 650 last year and loved it, however I won't own another 650 X2, ever. Like I said, it will be a fun ski to ride, just don't hop on anyones 780 B-pipe'd X2 because you won't want to ride yours anymore!!
It all just depends on what you want to spend on it. If your content with something to ride, just fix it. If your always going to want more power like most of us, you need to go ahead with the 750 in my opinion.

GREAT ADVICE!!!

[bluebanshee]

Great, but sad. Well I may as well go with some 70 or 80 pistons for cheap and think about either parting it out, selling the ski whole or getting a 750 for it.

[bluebanshee]

I would be happy if it ran as good as a modified js550.

[shawn_NJ]

I hope you dont.... but if you part out, I'll buy your steering cable....LOL

[bluebanshee]

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/144/img0597ns3.th.jpg (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0597ns3.jpg)

Will the gasket that comes with the kit fit the ocean pro intake/44(rcn?)carb?

[WFO Speedracer]

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/144/img0597ns3.th.jpg (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0597ns3.jpg)

Will the gasket that comes with the kit fit the ocean pro intake/44(rcn?)carb?


No it will come with gaskets for a 28mm or 38mm kehin,the Mikuni did not come stock on the X2,it looks like you cooked a piston on the engine,you might want to replace the crank seals while you are that far along.

[bluebanshee]

Do you think the crank seal could have leaned that cylinder out? I only ran it for about 5 minutes, and these are the original pistons.

Just pull the motor and dig the seals out?

[bluebanshee]

Another few questions. The westcoast head gasket is seperating, so where can I get one? I have the stock and will use it if i need too. If I can't get a gasket between the carb and intake, could I use something like yamabond or 1211? Thanks!

[madscientist]

pull the head gasket strip it down to the metal, then rough it up w/ some 400 grit , clean the surface, apply a liberal coat of copperseal spray to each side and allow to dry.

yes suzuki / kawi/ and yamabond can be ysed but you can buy carb base gaskets from surfjetlouie for a 1$ each if you buy a pack of ten

[WFO Speedracer]

I can't tell you what caused that cylinder to lean out but I can tell you that something did,the crank seals are a logical place to start.

[bluebanshee]

I forgot to mention the head wasnt as tight as it should have been, it seems that the back cylinder was leaking (likely) into the waterjacket. There was a little bit of vaseline like sludge there. The head gasket is actually seperating, its 2 layers.... or do you mean clean all 4 sides up and put it back together? These pistons have nearly 20 years on them...
I suppose front and rear crank seals are cheaper than another rebuild.
Do the cases have to be split for the rear seal to be replaced?

[karty]

Yes the cases DO need to be split!

[bluebanshee]

For the case halves is there a gasket or is sealer all that is used?

[WFO Speedracer]

Sealer ,use yamabond 4 or threebond,you can get it at your local motorcycle dealer.

[aggro]

interested to find out what happens....

[bluebanshee]

interested to find out what happens....

Whatcha mean? I have pistons ordered at the best I'd have it in the water only a few days after I get the pistons if the cylinder doesn't take long to get bored. I suppose I should replace the crank seal too. I didn't want to pull the motor and split the cases but I guess I can.

[karty]

You kinda have to remove the engine to replace the seals! LOL!

[bluebanshee]

Yeah I already got it out, cases split, but how do you get the output shaft coupler off? Its standard thread? Tried to take if off but couldn't. I'm gonna order the 1211 and the seals now. Everything looked good. There was some grease below the output seal but I don't know if its assembly grease or its built up from leaking, front seems good. There was very little sealer on the case halves and only a few spots where it actually squeezed out. It has some grease/dirt on the plate and crankcase, not sure if that would be from leaking or is that normal?

[WFO Speedracer]

Yeah I already got it out, cases split, but how do you get the output shaft coupler off? Its standard thread? Tried to take if off but couldn't. I'm gonna order the 1211 and the seals now. Everything looked good. There was some grease below the output seal but I don't know if its assembly grease or its built up from leaking, front seems good. There was very little sealer on the case halves and only a few spots where it actually squeezed out. It has some grease/dirt on the plate and crankcase, not sure if that would be from leaking or is that normal?

From the looks of the piston it was probably leaking,thats why I gave you the heads up,I didn't want to see it go back together and fry another top end! heat the coupler with a propane torch then use a chain wrench on it,it should come right off.There are of course proper tools for coupler removal,I have a homemade tool I made from a 440 steel coupler with a socket welded to it,but a chain wrench and a propane torch should get you by in a pinch.

[bluebanshee]

From the looks of the piston it was probably leaking,thats why I gave you the heads up,I didn't want to see it go back together and fry another top end! heat the coupler with a propane torch then use a chain wrench on it,it should come right off.There are of course proper tools for coupler removal,I have a homemade tool I made from a 440 steel coupler with a socket welded to it,but a chain wrench and a propane torch should get you by in a pinch.

Yeah I appreciate the heads up, I've worked on a lot of other machines, just very limited experience with watercraft but its nearly the same. Where can I get a gasket for the west coast head? Wonder if the head wasn't torqued down enough could cause the rear to lean out? I bought it like this and have only ran it less than 5 minutes.

[WFO Speedracer]

Yeah I appreciate the heads up, I've worked on a lot of other machines, just very limited experience with watercraft but its nearly the same. Where can I get a gasket for the west coast head? Wonder if the head wasn't torqued down enough could cause the rear to lean out? I bought it like this and have only ran it less than 5 minutes.


usually any air leaks will be at the base gasket or below it ,with the exception of the carb gasket or throttle shaft of course.

[bluebanshee]

Do you know if the gaskets in the kit will fit my ocean pro intake on the case side?

[WFO Speedracer]

Do you know if the gaskets in the kit will fit my ocean pro intake on the case side?


Yes all intake gaskets are the same.

[bluebanshee]

Good. How long can it be ran on the house with the flush kit? Indefinitely?

[WFO Speedracer]

I would't run it over a few minutes,you can overheat the bearings in the jet pump if run for extended periods on the hose.

[madscientist]

completete the top end. re-assemble then pull the coupler, you will thank me since theres no good way to hold the crank out of the motor. put a rope down one of the cylinders to keep it from rotating .


trust me i have done enough of them to know

[bluebanshee]

I'm trying to replace the seal behind the coupler.....

[madscientist]

to get the coupler off you need the motor to be assembled to avoid damaging the crank

[dbrutherford]

I put the flywheel back on the crank with an old flywheel key. Tighten up the flywheel bolt. Then put two bolts into the flywheel. Tighten those bolts down in a vise. If the coupler isn't on there too tight, you can get it off this way using a chain wrench. Just use old bolts and a flywheel key. You don't want to screw up anyhthing...

[bluebanshee]

I put the flywheel back on the crank with an old flywheel key. Tighten up the flywheel bolt. Then put two bolts into the flywheel. Tighten those bolts down in a vise. If the coupler isn't on there too tight, you can get it off this way using a chain wrench. Just use old bolts and a flywheel key. You don't want to screw up anyhthing...

I didn't even think of that!

[bluebanshee]

Got pistons, will be dropping them off tonight for machine work. As long as I get the seals from AJS before the machine work is done I'm good to go.

[WFO Speedracer]

Is this dejavu?

[bluebanshee]

The head gasket wasn't separating.... the previous owner used both the stock gasket and the west coast gasket with clear silicone between them. There are some true mechanics out there:ugh2:

Cleaned it up, but could I use some 1211 on it?

[bluebanshee]

Is this dejavu?

????????


Oh and i got the coupler off. Heated it with the torch and melted a candle into the threads and it came right off after it cooled a little.

[dbrutherford]

Try www.PacificJetSports.com aka Gordy30 on eBay for the WC gasket. I think he had some made a year or two back.


I have heard of the candle trick before. I here it works pretty good!

DBR

[bluebanshee]

Yeah I found a gasket but, 26+6 shipping is a bit steep, I can try the WC head and the old gasket and if it leaks I'll put the stock head back on with the new gasket. I'm surprised it didn't leak with TWO headgaskets glued together.

I hope there weren't two gaskets for clearance problems. The WC gasket is very thin.

[bluebanshee]

The old crank seals were MUCH easier to slide on and off, I'm sure they leaked. Got the crank back in and just waiting to get the cylinders back.

Can the motor go in assembled with the tank in?

[madscientist]

not easily. i always pull the tank

[bluebanshee]

Ran it on the hose a few minutes. 170 psi compression in both cylinders. Will hopefully test ride it in the river tomorrow. I hope its not a turd.

[madscientist]

good luck and have fun

[bluebanshee]

I thought it ran good til I got it home and check the compression. 175psi in the front 50 in the rear! Took the head off and I think the ring was shaved off on the exhaust port top?? A hone should clean it up and new rings. All the ports were chamfered with a burr but i guess it could have had a burr or something that wasn't caught.... can't be lucky all the time. Hoping the piston is fine. Machinist said that the cylinder would clean up. As long as the piston is ok... going to chamfer the port more before the hone to catchy anything.

[bluebanshee]

Cylinders are honed, piston is ordered should be here thurs/friday. Could have seized a ring from multiple reasons.