CG Racing- My Situation and My Feedback.

[JetSkiFever]

I would like to preface this by sayinig that I am not usually one to publicly express my concern or disgust of a situation using a medium, such as X-h20, however due to a recent unfortunate transaction I feel as though this is the best way to express my concern, not only to the person responsible, but also to any other individuals who may have had similar problems.

I'm sure this will spark some interesting discussion and comments and I hope that people understand that I am not here to try and personally attack someone or some company, rather I am here in hopes that either the situation can be remedied or at minimum this person understands that the way they conduct business is unacceptable to me.

At the end of last season I tore down my boat to rebuild it and at that point I decided I would have a motor built for me. Long story short I decided to go with the Jetworks 4mm Stroker set-up and purchase it through CG Racing. Being a start-up business owner myself and a promoter of the sport I thought that it was a nice idea to go through a small company that was in my region (for sake of assistance with tuning and such) to build the motor. I understood that I could have gone straight to Art at Jetworks in CA but I wanted to give the local shop the chance to make a couple dollars while affordinig me the boutique and local customer service that I feel is important. So I purchased the Motor, Carbs, Reeds, Valves, etc all through Chuck. With plans of making the Daytona trip I felt I gave more than enough time to get the work done and have it sent back to me.

I recieved the motor just in time for Daytona and was reasonably happy with everything. Seing as though all that Chuck had to do was assemble the motor and bolt everything up and check it I thought I was all good to go.

I got the motor along with a call from Chuck to inform me of a few issues. He forgot the Carb to Manifold gaskets as well as not installing but sending me (as extras) the ADA dome o-rings. Then when asked about the leak down test that he said he would perform (which he didnt) he told me that hes "batting a hundred" and for me not to worry about it. Now I was a bit concerned because his Job was to properyl assemble the motor that Art machined, expoxied, ported etc.. but I was very anxious about Daytona and to try this motor out that he sold me on. Bolted it in and it fired right up. Sounded great out of water. I had checked the compression ( I had it set up as a pump/race mix) and it seemed a little high (232lbs on my guage) and chuck assured me that he checked the squish and that the high compression would give it some awesome hit.

In Daytona it ran like crap. On top it seemed clean but ran like junk on the bottom, always shutting off at low RPM....I asked Chuck to take it for a ride and he told me he didnt have any time. This started my chase for the problem....carb jetting, ignitions, coils, pump sealing, air leaks, higher octane fuel....and on down the line. I spent a lot of money replacing electrical parts, switching out the plugs everytime I rode it, $6/gallon straight race gas....All the while chuck assured me it was simply carb problems and i just need to get it tuned up right.

To make a really long story a little shorter I later ran into some serious problems. I noticed everytime I rode that the plugs had soot around them...thinking the coil was arcing I replaced it and it continued to occur...Then I rattled the Jug loose one day and Chuck told me I probably didnt torque them down (I was confident that you shouldnt need to re-torque head and girdle bolts after every single ride) but I accepted my error and bolted the not so smooth jug down to the not soo smooth cases (due to the loose rattling). Then I realized the thing was rattling plugs loose (the cause of the soot) and chuck again told me that you need to keep tightening them etc...IM NOT AN IDIOT but i listened to the reputable builder. Then the last time I rode it I actually blew the center out of one of the plugs. Pulled the head off again and started noticing pings all over the pistons and domes. Randy at Watcon confirmed that I had some serious detonation going on. I called Chuck again and he promised he checked the squish. I said F-it and told him I would just pay someone to haul my boat out to him in MI. He was near impossible to get ahold and I could tell he was sick of me calling him but nonetheless I setup a meeting point. He was gonna "tune it up" for me. Unfortunately Chuck was in an accident a few days after my boat was to get there. I thought the thing was MIA until someone informed me of his accident. He did end up calling me to tell me the boat was fine and that he was doing alright and had a guy that was working for him that could handle it. The boat never ended up making it to Chuck (he was going to grab it from his buddy where i had it delivered to) and I had to haul out to the middle of MI to pick it up one night from an airport hangar in the back of someones truck. Nobody touched my ski and I was back to square one with some Gas expense and a pain in the behind and a messed up motor.

I ended up buying a stock '06 short block from Butch Musick (it runs great).

My motor never had the squish checked...The pistons actually stamped their part number up in both domes. The squish made the cylinder rattle loose, the squish spun sprak plugs out and the squish tore my brand new stuff up. If there is one thing that I feel any engine builder needs to be sure of when assembling a motor is that it doesnt leak and the squish is correct. He assured me of one and concerned me with neglecting to do the other.

Art at Jetworks has my motor and concluded that due to some light machining of the cylinder it needed a thicker base gasket. He has been extremely receptive to me and is helping me put this thing back togatehr as cheaply as possible. I really appreciate his time and speedy help.

I went through Chuck because I knew a busy guy like Art would be hard to bother..now I realize if Art would have built the motor I wouldnt have had to bother him because it would have been right the first time. I should have been a little more casutious when I finally met chuck in Daytona and all the boats "he built" to bring down there were all slopped togatehr (some missing chin pads, others with no turf anywhere on them) The summer is near completion and I am still 4mm-less although It should be on its way next week form CA.

Still no response from Chuck after many attempts.

I want to reiterate that im not here to bash anyone however this was by far the worst transaction I have had in this sport and it cost me a lot of my hard earned money and is continuing to cost me more. Im sure Chucks margine of profit was small on this deal and I understand that. But the way I see it is that when you advertise your business and your services you need to back them and do the Job that people paid you to do. And when you make a mistake it is your responsibly to remedy the situation.


To all the respectable engine guys out there, including Art and everyone else who makes a living building motors.....I apologize for not buying direct through you guys.

It was a good lesson learned........

Sorry for the novel but thanks for your time.

I enjoyed meeting many of you in Daytona and am looking forward to January :wiggle:

Mike Widdes

[2lick]

sorry to hear your woes..... its often hard to get good service and phone calls back in this sport.... you have to bug the hell out of everyone and trust no one..... oh well, im sure you learned lots along the way... now maybe you can build your next one on your own!!!

[superjet0587]

that sucks man

[douglee25]

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. I'll keep it in my back pocket next time I need something done. Do you have any pics of the damage?

Doug

[tom21]

I don't see a problem with voicing your concerns. sucks it happened to you- hopefully you saved some others the same pains. busy is one thing but sloppy or incorrect work is entirely different. hope you have a trouble free motor now.

it will be interesting to see a response to this as it will show the character of the business/person in question.

[JetSkiFever]

I deleted most of the pictures..Here are a couple that show the contact.

[Idok]

whoa

[Matt_E]

^^ Youch. Looks like the domes were not machined at all to account for the over-deck height of the piston crowns.

[PancakePete]

THat is some Serious F-cked Shiot !
Sorry for your trouble...

If you paid by credit... I would put in a claim..

[wolf]

When someone tells me they're, "Battin' a hundred for you", alarm bells go off...

Is this dude 1. Math challenged, B. Not much of a hitter, or 4. A little loose with his speech?:lmao:

Sorry about your motor.

[tom21]

ouch

[JetSkiFever]

^^ Youch. Looks like the domes were not machined at all to account for the over-deck height of the piston crowns.

Yeah, actually it was that the base gasket didnt have the Jug up high enough. The domes were actually ok.

[njfl]

I thought you were exaggerating for drama effect regarding the stamping of the piston numbers in the dome. Wow (second picture in Post 6).

[JetSkiFever]

THat is some Serious F-cked Shiot !
Sorry for your trouble...

If you paid by credit... I would put in a claim..

unfortunately I sent him a personal check. Guess Chucks not the only one who made mistakes here. :sadwavey: Me to.....

[Jp116]

He did say he was batting 100. I would have felt more confident if he was batting 1000. I don't think a .100 batting average would even get you into the minor leagues. Sorry about your troubles.

[unclehulka13]

When someone tells me they're, "Battin' a hundred for you", alarm bells go off...

Is this dude 1. Math challenged, B. Not much of a hitter, or 4. A little loose with his speech?:lmao:

Sorry about your motor.



All of the above.

I recall the first time i met chuck, he was quite nosy. He's copied a few things from other businesses (start the flame) and that in my book is shotty at best.

[douglee25]

I deleted most of the pictures..Here are a couple that show the contact.

Damn bro, I can't believe he didn't check the squish with the piston so far about the deck. That is some serious height there. I would almost think you could just eye ball it and say for sure that the piston was going to hit that dome.

Doug

[CG Racing]

I would like everyone to remember there are two sides to every story.

The good news is I will no longer have to deal with Mike.

[Matt_E]

it will be interesting to see a response to this as it will show the character of the business/person in question.

The good news is I will no longer have to deal with Mike.

:noevil:







I would like everyone to remember there are two sides to every story.

Since one side has been aired, perhaps you'd like to make your side of this story known.

[Big Kahuna]

the imprint of the serial numbers is interesting........

[flacarncycleguy]

the imprint of the serial numbers is interesting........
haha yea, musta been poundin pretty good:Banane36::banghead:

[Big Kahuna]

haha yea, musta been poundin pretty good:Banane36::banghead:

you would have thought a good engine builder would have caught that...........

[blaster800]

WOW ! INTERESTING READ ! Its obviously not the carb tuning If thats what you were told , however I would like to hear '' the rest of the story !'' It looks like You took a big money hit on the eng your not satisfied with and CG might be taking a big money hit on future business ! bad for both parties ... just like a divorce !

[superjet0587]

looking forward to hearing your review when you get it running right

[Vumad]

My ears are open to hear the other half.

[Roo]

I would like everyone to remember there are two sides to every story.

The good news is I will no longer have to deal with Mike.

I would like to know your side, as you were on the list of potentials for a motor.

...and that last comment was unneeded. Especially for a small business owner (something you keep to yourself, as hard as it is).

Regards,
Andrew

[Gainera2582]

edited!!!!!!!!!!

[Mark44]

you would have thought a good engine builder would have caught that...........

A good one would.:tapedshut::noevil:

Mark44

[wayne]

if he does not tell his side then we only have one story to believe. he did not dispute and of what mike stated.

[Kingtut]

if i wasn't glued to a stupid computer screen all fookin day, i'd probably post at least 50% less than i do.


:bsflag:Then you whould only have one friend and not two. :popworm:

[GDFL]

if i wasn't glued to a stupid computer screen all fookin day, i'd probably post at least 50% less than i do.

Nah, you'd go through withdrawal and then go on giant posting binges to satisfy your addiction :09:

[JetSkiFever]

maybe he just does not want to get into an internet pissing match?

in my opinion, this guy had a negative experience with CG.

he posted about it. that's what this forum is for right?

dont hate CG too much b/c he doesnt feel like spending his time arguing on a message board all day.

if i wasn't glued to a stupid computer screen all fookin day, i'd probably post at least 50% less than i do.



Like I said it was a good lesson learned and im moving on. I gave him many opportunities to make this right. I spent a lot of money, time and aggravation, and more money on another motor (so I could at least ride this summer) to still not have a motor....I was unsure about posting on here anyways because I dont like putting dirty laundry out on the street.....I feel I am pretty empathetic and will strecth pretty far before I put my foot down.

Daniel San

[JetSkiFever]

i have no beef with your post. that's what this forum is all about right?

it's just post after post of people calling chuck out (whether directly or indireclty) asking him to air his side (which as a business owner, is hardly ever proper) that i was speaking to. he doesn't even post hardly ever on here anymore.

hey, if i paid to have a motor built and the pistons were slamming into the domes and imprinting their part numbers (which is kinda dam funny), i'd be pissed too, no question. like i said, no beef with you or your post. negative forum gets negative comments/posts, right? you were pissed, you vented. you have every right.

:01:

I am in agreement with you on all points. I was just hoping for the phone call.

[JetSkiFever]

word up.

hey, lets just say ive gone down a similar path i saw you heading in (online), and was really sticking my neck out for the sake of both you guys (believe what you want).

IMHO, its REALLY not worth the aggravation you will go through.

Right on man. Hey my family has a place down in Aventura and I practically grew up in Liquordale. I should hit you up next time im heading that way.:wiggle:

[The Penguin]

this forum is for feedback - not setting up your next man-date.

[douglee25]

definitely man, we can have a beer somewhere in laudi daudi. :Banane35:

we likes to paudi, we don't cause trouble, we don't botha nobody....

[2nd nature]

you would have thought a good engine builder would have caught that...........

i thought the same thing about one of my cylinders ported by a well known board member.. heli coils he installed came out and the new sleaves installed dropped.. verry shabby work.

[2nd nature]

looking forward to hearing your review when you get it running right

my jetworks 4 mil rips.:drive:

[JetSkiFever]

my jetworks 4 mil rips.:drive:

Im definitely excited to get it back up and going. I was disappointed at first.....made finding the problem almost bitterweet :chairfall:

[waterfreak]

Hey Mike, glad you got your motor issues figured out! Let's hook up when you get back south...I'll let you try the 10mm beast!!!

[thegoldenboy]

I agree there is always 2 sides of a story, but we can clearly see that it was incorrectly built and measured.

As a professional that is inexcusable, you fix it, you pay for it and you (as a builder) loearn from it and move on.

I can't count how many skis I used to toast on our Ptex machine (snow skiing for all yall southern folk) machine sucked and used to stick too (not my fault, but my machinery, inturn my fault).
Bubbled a few bases, but everytime we did you had to man up to the customer and make it right, or offer him something better (newer model, half the time the ski I wrecked wasn't current anymore) at cost.

Customer is happy on new 07 boards, shop doesn't lose a dime. Sometimes I felt as if I was doing people a favour. :griin:

[tom21]

saki I agree with what you are saying. I think most people are just curious as to how something came to be. as a mechanic its my job, my quest, my reason for being to find out what went wrong and then fix it. you can't fix the problem if you don't know what it is.

I don't know either of these guys but it would sure make me feel better about a fellow mechanic saying'"yeah I went on a three day bender and I guess somewhere in there I did some work at the shop' honestly I don't remember"

maybe he didn't have the opportunity to do all the work- there might be more to the story we don't know- sometimes customers want everything done to apoint and then they will handle the rest, and screw it up and blame the builder who actually didn't "build" any of it. If I send you the pushrod tubes you ask for and they are wrong but you put them in and the oil leaks all out and seizes the motor- is it my fault?

we don't really know what happened and its wrong for us to assume anything or accept "facts" we are given. as the "facts" are different from whatever viewpoint your seeing em from. it looks bad from where I sit but then I can only see the tip of the iceberg as far as the big picture goes.

not saying either party is wrong or right- just saying we weren't there and it would be nice to have both perspectives. but in the end its two guys slammin each other and us scratchin our heads.

crap now I don't knwo if this guy is a good mechanic or not.? and now I want to hear from him so I can kinda get a feel how this went down. makes no difference to me as I will be the only one building my motors -ever. but I may need to have some things done that I can't do myself and having a good list of quality guys to go to is nice- especially when your first couple of choices are always slammed or you want to help a smaller shop out with biz. whatever.

P.s. I love you- you hairy freak.:buttkick::lmao:

[Vumad]

maybe he just does not want to get into an internet pissing match?

in my opinion, this guy had a negative experience with CG.

he posted about it. that's what this forum is for right?

dont hate CG too much b/c he doesnt feel like spending his time arguing on a message board all day.


I was one of the people ready to hear the other side of the story. I didn't care too much until CG made a snide comment. If you don't want in on the piss match, keep your mouth closed. He shouldn't have said anything, but his comment about being glad he doesn't have to deal with this customer again makes it sound like he's saying "I made a mistake, ignored it, it festered, boy am I glad it went away on it's own."

I've delt with my fair share of shady customers, who have made up stories, written letters, and posted on forums things that were completely fabricated. I understand that sometimes people get upset and their frustration distorts reality, but I have never once gone onto a forum they posted on to say, "There's two sides of this story, all I can say is I'm glad I don't have to deal with them again."

It just sounds like ********, it makes the business look bad. Until his post, I didn't care much. I'm a broke SOB that has to do the work myself, so I suppose CG or anyone else wouldn't care about my opinion anyway.

[Idok]

So, did CG do all the machine work as well? or was the motor machined by jetworks and assembled by chuck?



something doesnt totally add up here...

[JetSkiFever]

So, did CG do all the machine work as well? or was the motor machined by jetworks and assembled by chuck?



something doesnt totally add up here...

Art at jetworks did all the machine work.

[Idok]

Art at jetworks did all the machine work.




So, CG assembled the motor



jetworks MACHINED the motor..........




doesnt the biggest problem lie within the machinework? :popworm:


granted, there were a couple of other things wrong (forgetting the gaskets, leakdown etc..)......



.......but wouldnt the squish have been set by JW as well????

[Big Kahuna]

So, CG assembled the motor



jetworks MACHINED the motor..........




doesnt the biggest problem lie within the machinework? :popworm:


granted, there were a couple of other things wrong (forgetting the gaskets, leakdown etc..)......



.......but wouldnt the squish have been set by JW as well????

Theoretically yes........ But Chuck was asked to check everything........ this is a pretty easy check, just poke some solder down there and measure.......

[butti]

Theoretically yes........ But Chuck was asked to check everything........ this is a pretty easy check, just poke some solder down there and measure.......

we could sit here and split hairs all day:Banane37: isnt that what chuck paid jetworks for?



this is why i agree with many others on here that this feedback section is generally bad for the x

[Big Kahuna]

we could sit here and split hairs all day:Banane37: isnt that what chuck paid jetworks for?



this is why i agree with many others on here that this feedback section is generally bad for the x

ok, so Chuck paid Art to do all the machine work...... Chuck builds motor and installs..........

Owner picks up ski and takes it to the water........ ski cranks but does not run good.......... Owner calls Chuck......... Chuck does nothing.......... Owner removes head and finds that instead of a 4 mil stroker crank, he figures out that a -4mil stroker crank was used, piston is about 1/4" low at TDC.......... So yeah, Art made a mistake in building the crank........ but he did not build the engine, Chuck did....... Should Chuck not still have some responsibility to check to make sure that everything is correct before owner picks the ski up??? (this was a hypothetical).........

So to answer your question.......... I would say Art had some liability, but I would bet he is taking care of that part himself since the motor has been at his shop....... the issue here is not with Art, but with Chuck since Chuck did the build and install.......... Did not check squish clearance, did not do a leakdown test..... plus what ever else was missing or wrong..........

This is not a matter of splitting hairs...........


personally... I like having feedback......... god knows I have taken chances with companies over the past few years without knowing much about them other than what I learned about on the internet............. good thing I know about waterdawg otherwise I might have decided in all my hood testing to sell the last hood I was running and give his a try................. (I have tried several hoods in the past, trial and error) or sell my X Metal Pole and place and order for the Billet Pole........... Glad the internet gives some good experiences........

[butti]

I would like to preface this by sayinig that I am not usually one to publicly express my concern or disgust of a situation using a medium, such as X-h20, however due to a recent unfortunate transaction I feel as though this is the best way to express my concern, not only to the person responsible, but also to any other individuals who may have had similar problems.

I'm sure this will spark some interesting discussion and comments and I hope that people understand that I am not here to try and personally attack someone or some company, rather I am here in hopes that either the situation can be remedied or at minimum this person understands that the way they conduct business is unacceptable to me.

At the end of last season I tore down my boat to rebuild it and at that point I decided I would have a motor built for me. Long story short I decided to go with the Jetworks 4mm Stroker set-up and purchase it through CG Racing. Being a start-up business owner myself and a promoter of the sport I thought that it was a nice idea to go through a small company that was in my region (for sake of assistance with tuning and such) to build the motor. I understood that I could have gone straight to Art at Jetworks in CA but I wanted to give the local shop the chance to make a couple dollars while affordinig me the boutique and local customer service that I feel is important. So I purchased the Motor, Carbs, Reeds, Valves, etc all through Chuck. With plans of making the Daytona trip I felt I gave more than enough time to get the work done and have it sent back to me.

I recieved the motor just in time for Daytona and was reasonably happy with everything. Seing as though all that Chuck had to do was assemble the motor and bolt everything up and check it I thought I was all good to go.

I got the motor along with a call from Chuck to inform me of a few issues. He forgot the Carb to Manifold gaskets as well as not installing but sending me (as extras) the ADA dome o-rings. Then when asked about the leak down test that he said he would perform (which he didnt) he told me that hes "batting a hundred" and for me not to worry about it. Now I was a bit concerned because his Job was to properyl assemble the motor that Art machined, expoxied, ported etc.. but I was very anxious about Daytona and to try this motor out that he sold me on. Bolted it in and it fired right up. Sounded great out of water. I had checked the compression ( I had it set up as a pump/race mix) and it seemed a little high (232lbs on my guage) and chuck assured me that he checked the squish and that the high compression would give it some awesome hit.

In Daytona it ran like crap. On top it seemed clean but ran like junk on the bottom, always shutting off at low RPM....I asked Chuck to take it for a ride and he told me he didnt have any time. This started my chase for the problem....carb jetting, ignitions, coils, pump sealing, air leaks, higher octane fuel....and on down the line. I spent a lot of money replacing electrical parts, switching out the plugs everytime I rode it, $6/gallon straight race gas....All the while chuck assured me it was simply carb problems and i just need to get it tuned up right.

To make a really long story a little shorter I later ran into some serious problems. I noticed everytime I rode that the plugs had soot around them...thinking the coil was arcing I replaced it and it continued to occur...Then I rattled the Jug loose one day and Chuck told me I probably didnt torque them down (I was confident that you shouldnt need to re-torque head and girdle bolts after every single ride) but I accepted my error and bolted the not so smooth jug down to the not soo smooth cases (due to the loose rattling). Then I realized the thing was rattling plugs loose (the cause of the soot) and chuck again told me that you need to keep tightening them etc...IM NOT AN IDIOT but i listened to the reputable builder. Then the last time I rode it I actually blew the center out of one of the plugs. Pulled the head off again and started noticing pings all over the pistons and domes. Randy at Watcon confirmed that I had some serious detonation going on. I called Chuck again and he promised he checked the squish. I said F-it and told him I would just pay someone to haul my boat out to him in MI. He was near impossible to get ahold and I could tell he was sick of me calling him but nonetheless I setup a meeting point. He was gonna "tune it up" for me. Unfortunately Chuck was in an accident a few days after my boat was to get there. I thought the thing was MIA until someone informed me of his accident. He did end up calling me to tell me the boat was fine and that he was doing alright and had a guy that was working for him that could handle it. The boat never ended up making it to Chuck (he was going to grab it from his buddy where i had it delivered to) and I had to haul out to the middle of MI to pick it up one night from an airport hangar in the back of someones truck. Nobody touched my ski and I was back to square one with some Gas expense and a pain in the behind and a messed up motor.

I ended up buying a stock '06 short block from Butch Musick (it runs great).

My motor never had the squish checked...The pistons actually stamped their part number up in both domes. The squish made the cylinder rattle loose, the squish spun sprak plugs out and the squish tore my brand new stuff up. If there is one thing that I feel any engine builder needs to be sure of when assembling a motor is that it doesnt leak and the squish is correct. He assured me of one and concerned me with neglecting to do the other.

Art at Jetworks has my motor and concluded that due to some light machining of the cylinder it needed a thicker base gasket. He has been extremely receptive to me and is helping me put this thing back togatehr as cheaply as possible. I really appreciate his time and speedy help.

I went through Chuck because I knew a busy guy like Art would be hard to bother..now I realize if Art would have built the motor I wouldnt have had to bother him because it would have been right the first time. I should have been a little more casutious when I finally met chuck in Daytona and all the boats "he built" to bring down there were all slopped togatehr (some missing chin pads, others with no turf anywhere on them) The summer is near completion and I am still 4mm-less although It should be on its way next week form CA.

Still no response from Chuck after many attempts.

I want to reiterate that im not here to bash anyone however this was by far the worst transaction I have had in this sport and it cost me a lot of my hard earned money and is continuing to cost me more. Im sure Chucks margine of profit was small on this deal and I understand that. But the way I see it is that when you advertise your business and your services you need to back them and do the Job that people paid you to do. And when you make a mistake it is your responsibly to remedy the situation.


To all the respectable engine guys out there, including Art and everyone else who makes a living building motors.....I apologize for not buying direct through you guys.

It was a good lesson learned........

Sorry for the novel but thanks for your time.

I enjoyed meeting many of you in Daytona and am looking forward to January :wiggle:

Mike Widdes




im glad art is helping and i agree that it should have been chuck but to me the way what i highlighted above reads is that still nobody has taken responsibility


as for the feedback forum its your website not mine,you guys are free to run it as you wish.it is only my opinion.i dont see how the airing of all this dirty laundry has any positive affect on this site

[SuperJETT]

as for the feedback forum its your website not mine,you guys are free to run it as you wish.it is only my opinion.i dont see how the airing of all this dirty laundry has any positive affect on this site


I'm not sure why you directed that at him.

However, this forum is for people to have a place to vent hopefully in a respectful manner concerns or bad experiences. People have a right to do that, and also have a right to hear of other experiences to base their decisions on.

He asked me if he should post this without me knowing who it was about, and I said go ahead. I would say that to anyone, no matter who is involved.

[FLY6584]

I think Feedback Sections are great. Most of the time people only report Negative Feedback, but not on this site. I always see Positive Feedbacks pop up. I definitely think the positives far outnumber the negatives so I don't think threads like this discredit this site at all. I do think it is the Admin's responsibility to ensure that Negative Feedbacks remain respectful and fair to both parties, but I personally think the admins here do this very well.

[JetSkiFever]

Hey Mike, glad you got your motor issues figured out! Let's hook up when you get back south...I'll let you try the 10mm beast!!!

Im ready for that ride Steve...Im coming down for the Lauderdale boat show late october. Ill let you know before I come. Hope all is well down there.

[JetSkiFever]

Theoretically yes........ But Chuck was asked to check everything........ this is a pretty easy check, just poke some solder down there and measure.......


Art simply ported , epoxied, bored, supplied crank....etc.....Chuck was the person that assembled the motor for the first time. And I didnt pay Art....Chuck did. Wasnt Arts fault...he told me after he looked at it that the base gasket was what it needed and that he prefers to assemble his motors himself but instead agreed to sell thru Chuck.

[JetSkiFever]

ok, so Chuck paid Art to do all the machine work...... Chuck builds motor and installs..........

Owner picks up ski and takes it to the water........ ski cranks but does not run good.......... Owner calls Chuck......... Chuck does nothing.......... Owner removes head and finds that instead of a 4 mil stroker crank, he figures out that a -4mil stroker crank was used, piston is about 1/4" low at TDC.......... So yeah, Art made a mistake in building the crank........ but he did not build the engine, Chuck did....... Should Chuck not still have some responsibility to check to make sure that everything is correct before owner picks the ski up??? (this was a hypothetical).........

So to answer your question.......... I would say Art had some liability, but I would bet he is taking care of that part himself since the motor has been at his shop....... the issue here is not with Art, but with Chuck since Chuck did the build and install.......... Did not check squish clearance, did not do a leakdown test..... plus what ever else was missing or wrong..........

This is not a matter of splitting hairs...........


personally... I like having feedback......... god knows I have taken chances with companies over the past few years without knowing much about them other than what I learned about on the internet............. good thing I know about waterdawg otherwise I might have decided in all my hood testing to sell the last hood I was running and give his a try................. (I have tried several hoods in the past, trial and error) or sell my X Metal Pole and place and order for the Billet Pole........... Glad the internet gives some good experiences........

I couldnt have said that better myself and as I mentioned before Art has been very receptive and not charging me any labor to re build this motor. :biggthumpup: Althought the parts price adds up quick

[FLY6584]

I couldnt have said that better myself and as I mentioned before Art has been very receptive and not charging me any labor to re build this motor. :biggthumpup: Althought the parts price adds up quick

Wow:bigeyes: Art really is a good guy. That's really nice of him. He really doesn't even have to do that for you.

[butti]

jetskifever,did jetworks machine the domes for this motor or were they off the shelf parts?

[butti]

Wow:bigeyes: Art really is a good guy. That's really nice of him. He really doesn't even have to do that for you.

thats very nice but its sad that he has to even pay for the parts.it seems to me that chuck/art or both should be taking care of it all.had they done this to begin with then the whole situation wouldnt be being debated on a a public forum by a bunch of third party people

hell maybe we would be talking about it ........in the positive feedback forum:tomato:

[Matt_E]

Why is it Art's place to fix (what appears to be) Chuck's mistake? :dunno:

[njfl]

jetskifever,did jetworks machine the domes for this motor or were they off the shelf parts?

I am seeing a lot of responses/questions that appear to be trying to point blame at Art here. All of these questions are irrelevant and meaningless. Even if Art did make a machining mistake (which he didn't), Chuck was chosen as the guy to build the motor and any of these problems should have been found by Chuck and worked out between Chuck and Art prior to JetskiFever even receiving his motor. That is how Chuck makes his money, outsourcing machining and doing the labor himself instead of paying Art to assemble the motor.

[Big Kahuna]

I am seeing a lot of responses/questions that appear to be trying to point blame at Art here. All of these questions are irrelevant and meaningless. Even if Art did make a machining mistake (which he didn't), Chuck was chosen as the guy to build the motor and any of these problems should have been found by Chuck and worked out between Chuck and Art prior to JetskiFever even receiving his motor. That is how Chuck makes his money, outsourcing machining and doing the labor himself instead of paying Art to assemble the motor.


Ding Ding Ding.................

Exactly................ This is the portion of the whole problem........ Chuck did not check it nor did he make an effort to correct the problem.........

Jetskifever should not have had to go directly to Art.......

[WFO Speedracer]

As someone who has eaten more than my share of labor and parts here is how I see it.When you do make a mistake and you will eventually,you eat it ,fix what needs to be fixed,make every effort to make the customer happy and go on down the road.To do anything else is foolish and just bad business pratice and will usually come back to bite you in the butt in some way or another.

[MILF]

As someone who has eaten more than my share of labor and parts here is how I see it.When you do make a mistake and you will eventually,you eat it ,fix what needs to be fixed,make every effort to make the customer happy and go on down the road.To do anything else is foolish and just bad business pratice and will usually come back to bite you in the butt in some way or another.

EXACTLY! Very Well Said!:bigok:

[djkorn1]

Chuck has been in a gnarley car accident. I am not sure if he would have been able to fix any problems that arose. He was in the hospital for a while. Keep that in mind before you judge. :Banane19:

As someone who has eaten more than my share of labor and parts here is how I see it.When you do make a mistake and you will eventually,you eat it ,fix what needs to be fixed,make every effort to make the customer happy and go on down the road.To do anything else is foolish and just bad business pratice and will usually come back to bite you in the butt in some way or another.

[wayne]

Chuck has been in a gnarley car accident. I am not sure if he would have been able to fix any problems that arose. He was in the hospital for a while. Keep that in mind before you judge. :Banane19:

did jetskifever know this?

apparently not. chuck should have explained his situation about being in the hospital. this could of all been avoided. but when his only comment is that he is glad he does not have to deal with mike any more makes it look as if he just did not give a damn. people are understanding, especially in this community. some one would have stepped up if chuck would have let people know that he was unable to work on it due to being in the hospital.

[Big Kahuna]

when was the wreck??

[douglee25]

did jetskifever know this?

apparently not. chuck should have explained his situation about being in the hospital. this could of all been avoided. but when his only comment is that he is glad he does not have to deal with mike any more makes it look as if he just did not give a damn. people are understanding, especially in this community. some one would have stepped up if chuck would have let people know that he was unable to work on it due to being in the hospital.

Jetskifever did know this. It was in his original post.

Doug

[butti]

Why is it Art's place to fix (what appears to be) Chuck's mistake? :dunno:


looks to me like it was something they both missed

[butti]

jetskifever,did jetworks machine the domes for this motor or were they off the shelf parts?

I am seeing a lot of responses/questions that appear to be trying to point blame at Art here. All of these questions are irrelevant and meaningless. Even if Art did make a machining mistake (which he didn't), Chuck was chosen as the guy to build the motor and any of these problems should have been found by Chuck and worked out between Chuck and Art prior to JetskiFever even receiving his motor. That is how Chuck makes his money, outsourcing machining and doing the labor himself instead of paying Art to assemble the motor.

i dont think that was an unreasonable question:dunno:


i also dont think that all this bs is any of our buisuness but hey,thats a whole other topic

[wayne]

Jetskifever did know this. It was in his original post.

Doug


he did not know chuck was in the hospital until some one told him, not chuck. it was in his first post, but he did not even know where his boat was for a couple days. then the person chuck had that could fix it did nothing. i am glad chuck is ok. he just needs to man up. just like saki told wydopen to do about that motor he sold. but he won't say that about chuck because he has had no problems with chucks work. if any one should man up it should be chuck since he is a business owner and an engine builder that did not do what he was paid to do.

[Mark44]

We need the peoples court again.:nutkick:

Mark44

[SXIPro]

Why is it Art's place to fix (what appears to be) Chuck's mistake? :dunno:

It's not. But, thankfully, Art understands customer service and how it relates to reputation, repeat customers, and more business in the future. Chuck, well......based on this specific transaction, I'd say needs some training in that area.

[douglee25]

are you stupid or something?

fkn idiot.

:haha::haha:

I think he needs some 22's!

Doug

[SJ13]

CG's all ways treated me right...

[Marshj]

he did not know chuck was in the hospital until some one told him, not chuck. it was in his first post, but he did not even know where his boat was for a couple days.

Chuck was in the hospital the weekend of June 23, he wasnt out for a good week. He had no phone, and if you were in the hospital with a broken back and ankle Im sure youd have your phone with you at all times? Chucks phone was shut off, even his best friends couldnt get ahold of him, we didnt even know he was in a car accident for at least 3 days. He was in a time of healing and with his family, we're all glad he is making it out OK. Chuck is a great guy, and has always helped me with whatever I need. Sorry you had a bad experience Mike. I'm sure chuck will be back up and on his feet within six months. Until then let us all wish him well and pray for his safe recovery.

Ohh and about chucks remark to mike, hes on Morphine + cut him a break:11:

[JetSkiFever]

Chuck was in the hospital the weekend of June 23, he wasnt out for a good week. He had no phone, and if you were in the hospital with a broken back and ankle Im sure youd have your phone with you at all times? Chucks phone was shut off, even his best friends couldnt get ahold of him, we didnt even know he was in a car accident for at least 3 days. He was in a time of healing and with his family, we're all glad he is making it out OK. Chuck is a great guy, and has always helped me with whatever I need. Sorry you had a bad experience Mike. I'm sure chuck will be back up and on his feet within six months. Until then let us all wish him well and pray for his safe recovery.

Ohh and about chucks remark to mike, hes on Morphine + cut him a break:11:


I do wish chuck a full and speedy recovery from his injuries. The body is a very important thing.

[Big Kahuna]

I do wish chuck a full and speedy recovery from his injuries. The body is a very important thing.

true...........

[Highroller]

Chuck is an awesome guy. He spent hours with me on the phone the other day from his hospital bed helping me set-up my Total Loss. He has taken parts off his own ski for myself and others to get us back on the water for a weekend while we wait for our new parts.

Last year I came to MI for a ride and my ski broke down and Chuck spent hours helping me repair it. When we ended up not having all the parts on site that we needed, he let me go ride his ski.

Heal up soon Chuck!

[tom21]

Chuck was in the hospital the weekend of June 23, he wasnt out for a good week. He had no phone, and if you were in the hospital with a broken back and ankle Im sure youd have your phone with you at all times? Chucks phone was shut off, even his best friends couldnt get ahold of him, we didnt even know he was in a car accident for at least 3 days. He was in a time of healing and with his family, we're all glad he is making it out OK. Chuck is a great guy, and has always helped me with whatever I need. Sorry you had a bad experience Mike. I'm sure chuck will be back up and on his feet within six months. Until then let us all wish him well and pray for his safe recovery.

Ohh and about chucks remark to mike, hes on Morphine + cut him a break:11:

I think that right there is what everyone was looking for, something to support the other side. this and the couple of posts after this show some qualities we look for in a business. so this is a bad circumstance? a one time transaction gone wrong? hope that is the case.

[djkorn1]

I've never heard of ANY other problems with CG Racing.

[beachjunkey]

CG Racing's always done me good too. He's helped me out of plenty of binds.
Chuck has been in a gnarley car accident.
No not Chuck... http://ronnymac.exposuremanager.com/p/southern_fried_freeride_07/img_893723 :clown:

[Mark44]

CG Racing's always done me good too. He's helped me out of plenty of binds.

No not Chuck... http://ronnymac.exposuremanager.com/p/southern_fried_freeride_07/img_893723 :clown:

LOL that picture should tell you something. LOL..............

Mark44

[JetSkiFever]

Looks like ate some coin thanks to Chuck and his A+ engine building operation. Im not surprised he wouldnt help out in any of the rebuilding.

Dear Chuck,

Close your doors and give up on your hack-job business. Ill be sending you all my damaged parts so you can put them on your website right next to your "Bad Boy Budget Stroker Package" . I definitely got stroked by it.

Regards,

Mike W



I just got my motor back from Jetworks last week and im hoping to have it in the water tomorrow.

[thong_bandit]

Looks like ate some coin thanks to Chuck and his A+ engine building operation. Im not surprised he wouldnt help out in any of the rebuilding.

Dear Chuck,

Close your doors and give up on your hack-job business. Ill be sending you all my damaged parts so you can put them on your website right next to your "Bad Boy Budget Stroker Package" . I definitely got stroked by it.

Regards,

Mike W



see thats the kind of stuff we dont need right there..chuck is a great guy/ and what i consider a personal friend of mine..and i even have trouble getting ahold of him most of the time..i husually never chime in on these things casue i just dont like getting involded in other peoples buisness. but that comment took it over the edge! chuck has helped just about every one i know out..he's sent stuff out to get paid for it a month or so later...i've seen him spend all day at freerides helping other people get thier boat running, and never get to ride himself that day..he made a set of footholds on short notice for me once with pins in his wrist and in extreme pain..but he knew i needed them..he gave me a carb last year at wave rave that he needed for a motor before he could sell it and let me keep it till i had to sell my ski..and waited for a few months before i brought it back to him..told him i was sorry i kept it for so long..his response no problem...when i did get rid of my ski he called me and told me if i needed money that bad i should have come to him and asked to borrow it before i sold my ski..then told me that whenever i wanted to go out and ride i was more than welcome to come borrow his for the day..his intentions are always good..and i doubt if he's gonna air his side of the story in this thread, even tho it could probally clear some things up..he's just not that way..he wont keep this pissing situation up. i'm sure if someone was considering a motor build and called him and asked him about this situation he'd be more than happy to set them straight on what happened..i rode one of his 4mm strokers at pitt pass this year and i can vouche that motor rips!!..sorry for the novel but these are just a few of the things i've expierienced with chuck..and i assure you he's here for the sport and to help people out..definatlly not just to try and screw people over and take thier money.

[JetSkiFever]

see thats the kind of stuff we dont need right there..chuck is a great guy/ and what i consider a personal friend of mine..and i even have trouble getting ahold of him most of the time..i husually never chime in on these things casue i just dont like getting involded in other peoples buisness. but that comment took it over the edge! chuck has helped just about every one i know out..he's sent stuff out to get paid for it a month or so later...i've seen him spend all day at freerides helping other people get thier boat running, and never get to ride himself that day..he made a set of footholds on short notice for me once with pins in his wrist and in extreme pain..but he knew i needed them..he gave me a carb last year at wave rave that he needed for a motor before he could sell it and let me keep it till i had to sell my ski..and waited for a few months before i brought it back to him..told him i was sorry i kept it for so long..his response no problem...when i did get rid of my ski he called me and told me if i needed money that bad i should have come to him and asked to borrow it before i sold my ski..then told me that whenever i wanted to go out and ride i was more than welcome to come borrow his for the day..his intentions are always good..and i doubt if he's gonna air his side of the story in this thread, even tho it could probally clear some things up..he's just not that way..he wont keep this pissing situation up. i'm sure if someone was considering a motor build and called him and asked him about this situation he'd be more than happy to set them straight on what happened..i rode one of his 4mm strokers at pitt pass this year and i can vouche that motor rips!!..sorry for the novel but these are just a few of the things i've expierienced with chuck..and i assure you he's here for the sport and to help people out..definatlly not just to try and screw people over and take thier money.


I dont doubt that you and others have had nice experiences with Chuck. To be honest I gave him the benefit of the doubt for a very long time. He has made absolutely no attempt to help, in any way shape or form, my situation. I believe that to bad business. When I emailed chuck to see if he was willing to help out he said this

My initial email---

Chuck,

Art is currently shipping my re-built motor to me. While he didnt charge me
labor and was very fair on parts it still ended up costing me $408 with
shipping. I am hopeful that you will make some attempt at rectifying the
situation. I am a very fair person and felt like I was taken advantage of.
The product and service that I paid for (per your advertised deal) is not what I received.

Regards,

Michael Widdes

Chucks Response

After your big letter in on the x, i'll get right on it. good luck!


Now you tell me what your stand on a situation like this would be if you went through the grief and agravation that I did. And I must admit that my email that followed his (which I deleted) was not pretty by any means.

[ashley]

chuck owes you money!

[djkorn1]

BTW..Chuck is still in a wheelchair. I don't know how you expect him to do anything. The dude can't even walk. :nono:

[JetSkiFever]

Dont worry DJ. I dont want him to go near my equipment. I do however want him to help me pay for re-building it. :kabong:

[sflsurfrider]

it looks like a crackhead assembled that engine!

who actually put the head on the engine?

[wayne]

i don't understand why people that have had good work done by cg racing can't accept that he screwed the pooch on this one. this is the same arguement in the lpw thread. he screwed up and jetskifever had to pay out of his pocket and chuck should make it right. i understand he got hurt, but you don't have to be able to walk to send a check, paypal, or money order.

[WFO Speedracer]

I am just thinking out loud here but do you think it could be possible that all is money is going toward medical bills at the moment?

[shawn_NJ]

Edit:

[wayne]

I dont doubt that you and others have had nice experiences with Chuck. To be honest I gave him the benefit of the doubt for a very long time. He has made absolutely no attempt to help, in any way shape or form, my situation. I believe that to bad business. When I emailed chuck to see if he was willing to help out he said this

My initial email---

Chuck,

Art is currently shipping my re-built motor to me. While he didnt charge me
labor and was very fair on parts it still ended up costing me $408 with
shipping. I am hopeful that you will make some attempt at rectifying the
situation. I am a very fair person and felt like I was taken advantage of.
The product and service that I paid for (per your advertised deal) is not what I received.

Regards,

Michael Widdes

Chucks Response

After your big letter in on the x, i'll get right on it. good luck!


Now you tell me what your stand on a situation like this would be if you went through the grief and agravation that I did. And I must admit that my email that followed his (which I deleted) was not pretty by any means.


does not make it ok for his response above.

[shawn_NJ]

EDIT: Staying out too.

[Big Kahuna]

Deleted by me, staying out of the mess


Guys, keep this thread factual.........

We do not need another trainwreck thread.


Thanks

[JetSkiFever]

Yep, turbo medical bills...
http://www.x-h2o.com/showthread.php?t=24056


enough stated for me. Im glad to hear that the money I paid for chucks services, or lack there of, are going to good use.

Thanks again Chucky G.

[Water Worx]

Karma...Shes a bitch & she will get ya.

[Gainera2582]

I think chuck is an honest guy. There is more to this story than what is being told Im sure that we haven't heard yet.

[JetSkiFever]

I think chuck is an honest guy. There is more to this story than what is being told Im sure that we haven't heard yet.

He has the nerve to post on Paul and Petes dispute but wont air his side of the story here. Im sorry to break the news but there is no other side. Chuck has had more than enough opportunities on and OFF the site to speak his side.

[Water Worx]

I think chuck is an honest guy. There is more to this story than what is being told Im sure that we haven't heard yet.

Then if he has nothing to hide....he should post his side.

Its when people have something to hide,then they dont post.:confused:

[MILF]

I would like everyone to remember there are two sides to every story.

The good news is I will no longer have to deal with Mike.

What a hyprocrite .... As a business owner myself, your responses to Mike are anything but professional!

As far as your signature..... You are insulting me now and unlike you my reputation is intact.... There are no negative threads in regards to my business on any forum - I personally as a freeride groupie and a sponsor have done nothing but worked my butt off to help organize last year's Lanier ride and this year's Altoona ride..... I even helped Nick last year with the Daytona Freeride by transporting (well Chris and Rhonda transported most of the food) food for the lunch for over 400 people and have signed up again this year with SBT to do it again...... I wonder why I even bother with people like you in the sport???

You were all over Paul's negative thread but you all you did on yours was insult your customer..... Pathetic!

[sflsurfrider]

hes only burying himself. with treating somoeone like that, he'll be 'not' dealing with a lot more people than just mike.

[unclehulka13]

I wonder who's porting specs he ripped off. We all know he took a mold off a 24-7 hood.

[crammit442]

What a hyprocrite .... As a business owner myself, your responses to Mike are anything but professional!

As far as your signature..... 1.)You are insulting me now and unlike you my reputation is intact.... There are no negative threads in regards to my business on any forum - I personally as a freeride groupie and a sponsor have done nothing but worked my butt off to help organize last year's Lanier ride and this year's Altoona ride.....2.) I even helped Nick last year with the Daytona Freeride by transporting (well Chris and Rhonda transported most of the food) food for the lunch for over 400 people and have signed up again this year with SBT to do it again...... I wonder why I even bother with people like you in the sport???

3.)You were all over Paul's negative thread but you all you did on yours was insult your customer..... Pathetic!

1. I'm pretty sure your name wasn't mentioned. If your reputation is directly tied to Paul, then I guess you're in deep poop. Nothing I can do for you there. Speaking of reputations......might look into a change of screen name......I mean really. How old are you?:boggled:

2. I ate some. Food was GOOD! Hope to eat more in Daytona!!Thanks!!!:fing02:

3. Just for fun I checked. Chuck made one post on that thread. The post he made did nothing but quote an email Paul maliciously sent to slander Chuck. I've noticed that Paul's last few remaining supporters say that his detractors are just scorned women or mean or nasty or whatever but never defend or deny any of the allegations made against him........hmmmm.......:wave:

[Big Kahuna]

1. I'm pretty sure your name wasn't mentioned.
CG Racings SIGNATURE LINE ---- "Hey Ronny- you better tell your friend Kathy to teach Paul how to cook because his job as a motor builder in Done!
Go shoot a picture of paul baking a cake on that dyno of his".
You might want to check out your buddies Sig line, He has mentioned Kathy........ It is a quote for John Scorn that was inflamatory also, Chuck has decided to use it... as an insult towards Kathy and Paul. So, she has every right to respond to Chuck in this thread....... He feels it is open season on business owners, their spouses. She is just responding in kind, didnt you say something to me in a PM a few weeks about about something being good enough us then it should be good enough for you, think it was about the invisible mode.................

If your reputation is directly tied to Paul, then I guess you're in deep poop. Nothing I can do for you there. Speaking of reputations......might look into a change of screen name......I mean really. How old are you?:boggled: Actually you do not even know why she has that screen name, actually she really does not care for it too much, but when she was signing up on Riot if I am not mistaken, a very close and dear friend of hers gave her that name......

2. I ate some. Food was GOOD! Hope to eat more in Daytona!!Thanks!!!:fing02:
Honestly if I was Kathy, the only thing anybody would be eating was whatever they brought for themselves... I would not waste my time because of all the ungratefull SOB's here that feel they need to stick their noses in places that they really dont belong........
3. Just for fun I checked. Chuck made one post on that thread. The post he made did nothing but quote an email Paul maliciously sent to slander Chuck. In the future actions like that will not be tolerated(posting of PM's and Private Emails will no longer be allowed without the consent of the sender or sendee, regardless of the content), in this case, Chuck should have contacted Paul directly like most real men would have done and not hid behind a keyboard. And actually, that email had nothing to do with the thread, it was an email between 2 people, funny thing is, at the time we all saw a copy of a 24/7 hood (granted I never saw one listed for sale but had been told that he would make one for somebody......who knows....... I also did see chin pads for sell that looked exactly like the same 24/7 chin pad that I have been running for 4 years. I think I may have had similar conversations....HMMMMM I wonder if he is splashing other peoples products.... I've noticed that Paul's last few remaining supporters say that his detractors are just scorned women or mean or nasty or whatever but never defend or deny any of the allegations made against him........hmmmm.......:wave:


See Red Above......

[RonnyMac]

2. I ate some. Food was GOOD! Hope to eat more in Daytona!!Thanks!!!
Honestly if I was Kathy, the only thing anybody would be eating was whatever they brought for themselves... I would not waste my time because of all the ungratefull SOB's here that feel they need to stick their noses in places that they really dont belong........

Couldn't agree more Harrison.
Fortunately Kathy is a bigger person than some people. If they happen to help themselves to Kathy and Pauls generosity, I hope they choke on it.

[crammit442]

Quote: Originally Posted by crammit442 (http://www.x-h2o.com/member.php?username=crammit442)http://www.x-h2o.com/images/bbcodemanager/simple/link.png (http://www.x-h2o.com/showthread.php?p=367845#post367845)



1. I'm pretty sure your name wasn't mentioned.
CG Racings SIGNATURE LINE ---- "Hey Ronny- you better tell your friend Kathy to teach Paul how to cook because his job as a motor builder in Done!
Go shoot a picture of paul baking a cake on that dyno of his".
You might want to check out your buddies Sig line, He has mentioned Kathy........ It is a quote for John Scorn that was inflamatory also, Chuck has decided to use it... as an insult towards Kathy and Paul. I don't see any slam against Kathy. You just mentioned John Scorn by name. Is that a slam against him? So, she has every right to respond to Chuck in this thread....... He feels it is open season on business owners, their spouses. Sort of like Paul's email to Blowsion???She is just responding in kind, didnt you say something to me in a PM a few weeks about about something being good enough us then it should be good enough for you, think it was about the invisible mode.................I did. You said you "accidentally" did it and were turning it back off......guess you changed your mind????

If your reputation is directly tied to Paul, then I guess you're in deep poop. Nothing I can do for you there. Speaking of reputations......might look into a change of screen name......I mean really. How old are you?:boggled: Actually you do not even know why she has that screen name, actually she really does not care for it too much, I actually did know why she has that name. but when she was signing up on Riot if I am not mistaken, a very close and dear friend of hers gave her that name......

2. I ate some. Food was GOOD! Hope to eat more in Daytona!!Thanks!!!:fing02:
Honestly if I was Kathy, the only thing anybody would be eating was whatever they brought for themselves... I would not waste my time because of all the ungratefull SOB's here that feel they need to stick their noses in places that they really dont belong........Why again are you involved in this??????? was your name mentioned?????
3. Just for fun I checked. Chuck made one post on that thread. The post he made did nothing but quote an email Paul maliciously sent to slander Chuck. In the future actions like that will not be tolerated(posting of PM's and Private Emails will no longer be allowed without the consent of the sender or sendee, regardless of the content), in this case, Chuck should have contacted Paul directly like most real men would have done and not hid behind a keyboard.Once again. Like Paul did in the very email we're discussing. And actually, that email had nothing to do with the thread, it was an email between 2 people, funny thing is, at the time we all saw a copy of a 24/7 hood (granted I never saw one listed for sale but had been told that he would make one for somebody......who knows....... I also did see chin pads for sell that looked exactly like the same 24/7 chin pad that I have been running for 4 years.Just how many ways are there to make a chinpad ??? I think I may have had similar conversations....HMMMMM I wonder if he is splashing other peoples products.... I've noticed that Paul's last few remaining supporters say that his detractors are just scorned women or mean or nasty or whatever but never defend or deny any of the allegations made against him........hmmmm.......:wave:

See black above.......

[Scorn800]

That is my post and Chuck has my permission to use it. I think it's very funny.
I also think LPW is a bunch of lying scumbags and I tell everyone I know not to use them.

[Big Kahuna]

Crammit:

1. hey John, Forgive me for using your name, but I did not think it was a secret since Pete has thanked you for sponsorship........

2. "Glad you reminded me, I forgot I had set myself invisible. Just changed it back." This was my response to your PM, if your gonna "quote" somebody, why not get your facts straight. There is a difference....... Since then I have decided to set it back........ As an Admin that is my perogative, but if anybody needs me all they have to do is send a PM, I do not do it to hide from people so they will not PM me.

3. You asked why I am even here. Why dont you ask yourself the same question, you quoted MILF on post number 113....... talk about a double standard. I responded on post number 114.

4. Oh, about the food part, I am acting like you..... voicing my opinon......... Now, is there anything wrong with that?

[RonnyMac]

I sent a pm to Chuck about the sig. He should at least remove my name.
I dont want to be associated with Scorn's pissy little comments, or him.

[sflsurfrider]

ive been banned MANY times for voicing my opinion. obviously there IS something wrong with that.

right?

or did i miss something?

[Big Kahuna]

Charlie, you know as well as I do that you got banned for over eating popcorn...............

But it was the manner in which you voiced it............. But please dont bite the hand that feeds you...........

[sflsurfrider]

Charlie, you know as well as I do that you got banned for over eating popcorn...............

But it was the manner in which you voiced it............. But please dont bite the hand that feeds you...........

who is biting hands? im just asking a question. is there something wrong with asking a question?

[Big Kahuna]

who is biting hands? im just asking a question. is there something wrong with asking a question?

Butter is optional............

[crammit442]

Crammit:

1. hey John, Forgive me for using your name, but I did not think it was a secret since Pete has thanked you for sponsorship........

2. "Glad you reminded me, I forgot I had set myself invisible. Just changed it back." This was my response to your PM, if your gonna "quote" somebody, why not get your facts straight. There is a difference....... Since then I have decided to set it back........ As an Admin that is my perogative, but if anybody needs me all they have to do is send a PM, I do not do it to hide from people so they will not PM me.

3. You asked why I am even here. Why dont you ask yourself the same question, you quoted MILF on post number 113....... talk about a double standard. I responded on post number 114.

4. Oh, about the food part, I am acting like you..... voicing my opinon......... Now, is there anything wrong with that?

Uhhhhh, ok???????:thinking:

[sflsurfrider]

since i have nothing else to add, im just going to leave.

[djkorn1]

All this crap needs to be let go. :Flush:

Everyone in this business has made mistakes. Lets ditch some pride and go back to having a good time, riding and building skis.

let's get over it allready. :chairshot:

[WFO Speedracer]

My turn ,I know this is totally none of my bussiness,but you also know that has never stopped me before so here goes.I and some others feel that some individuals here are trying to sweep something under the rug.I won't bother mentioning any names,the individuals involved already know who they are.Now you have a choice ,you can either get on here and post,defend your actions or face the consequences of your actions,this is directed at several people here.If you are waiting for or thinking this will go away and everyone will forget about it you are wrong.There it is plain and simple in black and white,you know its true.What you do now will determine how this site sees you and if some will do business with you or not.Sheep can only be led to water ,you cannot make them drink it.

[Big Kahuna]

All this crap needs to be let go. :Flush:

Everyone in this business has made mistakes. Lets ditch some pride and go back to having a good time, riding and building skis.

let's get over it allready. :chairshot:

exactly........... that is the problem, certain individuals keep making jabs, throwing insults........... It is time to move on..........

[djkorn1]

The feedback has been left. Lets close this thread too.