Msd Sucks

[godocgo]

i have been thru 4 brand new out of the box 701 enhancers, all have been bad. finally got sick of it and sent one to MSD for there inspection. over 4 hrs were spent on the boat making sure every possible thing that could be wrong on the boat was not wrong. with all the time spent diagnosing the problem, they were of course told of what the problem was not.
long story short, put a stock cdi in and the problem was gone.

so anyway msd sends the unit back and says it is fine, hook it back up. yup same problem. they did not do anything. they are so worthless.

[waxhead]

Lee go to www.waxracing.com
i can help you out

[Sanford]

I hate when a company assumes clients are clueless and the client must be doing something wrong. :banghead:

I don't know if MSD's watercraft group is different then the automotive department but I've had great support from them (over 20 years). I recently sent in a burnt 12yr/old MSD 7AL (http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_16_7230.htm) box and they returned a refurbished/fixed item at no charge.

[waxhead]

Cant argue with that
makes them sound like the factory pipe of the car industry

[Waste Land]

Cant argue with that
makes them sound like the factory pipe of the car industry

Yup...MSD has good products and service for cars....but suck at PWC.

[keefer]

Yup, I like MSD products for the performance value, but the customer service for the PWC products needs improvement. I called about my MSD coil the other day because the wires have been cut back and I have no more slack. I asked the rep if I could replace the wires in their coil like you can in the stocker and they acted like I was crazy. Their response was to just buy a new one from Riva or somebody for $110. They can kiss my ass, I will just put new wires in me original stock coil and run it when the wires fail again.

[Mouthfulloflake]

Feel free to send me ALL of those broken MSD enhancers...

Im uhhh.... turning them into really fancy clocks....

and other artful things.

PM me for my address.

[Cane700]

I'm not sure if this info will be helpful or not because I don't know what specific problems you are having but you should check to make sure you connected the correct White wire. There are 2 white wires that come out of the MSD. If you connect the wrong one, it will not work. I bought an extra unit and almost threw out a perfectly good unit a few years back. I've been running the same enhancer for 5 years now and (knock on wood) its been fine. I remember the wiring instructions that came with the unit were wrong. You had to use the instructions off their website.

[Sanford]

you should check to make sure you connected the correct White wire. There are 2 white wires that come out of the MSD. If you connect the wrong one, it will not work.Explain how you are going to goof up connecting the 2 white wires if they have different terminal ends (one male, other female).

[Matt_E]

Some of them are that way - you'll need to get a different connector. I know, because that's what I had to do with mine.

[Mile9c1]

If you have a 62T stator you'll need to run a jumper wire on one of the wires (I forget which one) or just cut the end off and replace it with the opposite sex.

I've never had much luck with the directions, but it's easy to check if you have the right ones hooked up (check for spark before you close the box back up, of course).

[godocgo]

well on my setup it is pretty much impossible to f-it up. you can only connect each wire to the correct wire because of the terminal ends.

my problem is i only get a spark when i let off the start button. if the boat catches and runs it runs fine. but other than that it just sparks only when you let go of the start button. i had tj spend 4 hrs going over every possible thing he could think of, he bypassed the start stop, he grounded the boat directly etc, etc. everything leads to the cdi.

but if you put a stock cdi in it sparks like normal. you tell me what the problem is?

[Mile9c1]

Try it in someone else's ski.

[godocgo]

i have tried 5 new msd enhancers all the same thing. i am using a borrowed stock enhancer. nobody who rides with me except paul rides an sj or blaster.

and paul uses total loss.

[Matt_E]

well on my setup it is pretty much impossible to f-it up. you can only connect each wire to the correct wire because of the terminal ends.

No. On some stators (62T, per Mile) you NEED to use a jumper to connect a male to male, or something like that.

[T-bone]

i have tried 5 new msd enhancers all the same thing. i am using a borrowed stock enhancer. nobody who rides with me except paul rides an sj or blaster.

and paul uses total loss.

i can kinda see msd's point on this.......what are the chances 5 enhancers they send you are bad.

[Mile9c1]

No. On some stators (62T, per Mile) you NEED to use a jumper to connect a male to male, or something like that.

I'm just throwing it out there. The 62T stator is different than the 61X stator; yamaha probably switched a connector on purpose to prevent mixing them on the assembly line.

[godocgo]

the point is i sent it to msd with full info on the problem. they sent it back 3 weeks later saying it was fine. when tj called them back to ask how it was good to go. they said they don't have away to test my problem. they only have a bench and electric meters. they don't even have access to a boat or motor to test with.

point is then why does it take 3 weeks to get it back and why bother having me send it in at all in the first place.

has anyone ever experienced this type problem before, not from msd (company) but from the enhancer.

i have pretty much had it with this 10 hr. old motor. i am probably going to pull the motor and have the cylinder ported. then i will put it back together with a new stator and starter and start all over again.

i keeping thinking that somethin in my electrical is bad, but we can't find it.

[Matt_E]

I don't think anything's bad. On my boat (62T) I had to put in a homemade jumper, because you need to connect two same ends. I think the instructions state that.

[godocgo]

matt are you getting it, this is not my first msd. this paticular boat has been thru 6 msd's, 2 riva's and the only thing that works is a stock 62t cdi. it was running an msd when all this **** started. one day at the lake it just did not want to start, then after i let go of the start button it fired. ran fine except it wanted to stall out if i idled for more than 10 seconds. kept getting worse thru out the day. now it won't even start because it has been sitting for over 6 weeks. it would start if i used the stock cdi.

so you tell me where do i put the blame. i figure it is msd related since a stock cdi works.



yes i am using the white jumper, always have.

my whole point to the post was msd sucks as a company for support.

now in my cars they have been great even with customer support.



the only thing that has not been done including all new wiring.

is changing the starter out, tim figures it could be drawing to much current and not letting cdi spark until the power to the starter is removed. lastly the stator has not been replaced. but if it is making spark and charging the battery it a appears ok right, who knows. maybe john at jss has seen a problem like this before. maybe one of the coils or whatever is not doing its job. the electrical **** is over my head.

i just ride them, and crack baks to pay for my hobbies.:biggrin:

[sflsurfrider]

ahhhh.... the ole spark-when-ya-let-go-of-the-green-button syndrome.

ive seen it happen only on msd enhancers. probably about 2 or 3 in the last year in fact. i dont think its your starter as ive had fired up engines that were barely able to make the last revolution while cranking then fired up with a roar with an msd enhancer.

the enhancer on my new ski (was in my square) decided to take on a new role.... now, when i crank the starter, it sounds like my batterey is bad.. is if it has not a lot of strength... but the cranking is intermittant. as soon as i remove the boots from the plugs, it cranks over nice and hard. im not removing the plugs, just the boots, and it cranks normal.

anyone ever heard of this?

[Matt_E]

Lee: Sorry, I didn't realize you had been using the Jumper.

I agree, MSD sucks for support. I think I might tinker with coming up with my own Total Loss brain - a direct replacement for the MSD unit.

[T-bone]

ahhhh.... the ole spark-when-ya-let-go-of-the-green-button syndrome.

ive seen it happen only on msd enhancers. probably about 2 or 3 in the last year in fact. i dont think its your starter as ive had fired up engines that were barely able to make the last revolution while cranking then fired up with a roar with an msd enhancer.

the enhancer on my new ski (was in my square) decided to take on a new role.... now, when i crank the starter, it sounds like my batterey is bad.. is if it has not a lot of strength... but the cranking is intermittant. as soon as i remove the boots from the plugs, it cranks over nice and hard. im not removing the plugs, just the boots, and it cranks normal.

anyone ever heard of this?


had that happen on my blaster with an OEM cdi, blew the water box to pieces.

[sflsurfrider]

had that happen on my blaster with an OEM cdi, blew the water box to pieces.

its misfired a few times, but not bad enough to blow up the waterbox. i do cringe when i push the start button though. i should just change it..... but it works great once it starts!:banghead:

[SUPERJET-113]

as soon as i remove the boots from the plugs, it cranks over nice and hard. im not removing the plugs, just the boots, and it cranks normal.
anyone ever heard of this?

SFL, you should ground out the plugwires while turning the motor over. This is the proper way to relieve the heat that builds up in the coil. With each revolution of the flywheel around the stator, the ignition sends a signal (load) to the coil. This, if not relieved, overheats the coil, and if done enough, will fry the coil. Just insert a sparkplug into the plugcaps and ground them to the motor while cranking the motor over for testing or doing a compression test of the cylinders.

[Sanford]

Possibility...

These MSD Enhancers are of a lower resistance (capacitance) and are more sensitive to electrical bugs, thus will appear to be bad. Maybe the stock CDI's are not as sensitive and can handle the odd variables your setup currently has.

A similar issue happens with race motors (cars) when different coils will require a certain (sand filled) ballast resistor or else! I recently needed to change some ignition components in my Chevelle because the of what turned out to be a ground loop. A ground loop issue can fool the best of us.

[SUPERJET-113]

OH NO!!! Mr. Bill!!!

No, no Mr. Bill dont stick your hand in that hole in the back of that Jetski while its running. OH NON NONONNOOOOOOO!!

LOL Nice avatar dude, Classic SNL!

[sflsurfrider]

SFL, you should ground out the plugwires while turning the motor over. This is the proper way to relieve the heat that builds up in the coil. With each revolution of the flywheel around the stator, the ignition sends a signal (load) to the coil. This, if not relieved, overheats the coil, and if done enough, will fry the coil. Just insert a sparkplug into the plugcaps and ground them to the motor while cranking the motor over for testing or doing a compression test of the cylinders.

well, yeah... i always ground the plug wires. thats not whats making my enhancer get all squirrely when the boots are actually on the plugs while im cranking though.

[godocgo]

it appears we as a group have done more test with msd products than they have

if i was not such a cheap f-er, i would just call wax and get his unit.

good thing it is a just play boat. i am taking the cylinder off tonight or tomorrow and gonna let tj freestyle port it. the boat feels sluggish anyway.


by the way i am pretty sure i sold my sxr, anybody got a cheap roundnose available.

[tricky1]

Paup P has got one. Check it out.

[sflsurfrider]

by the way i am pretty sure i sold my sxr, anybody got a cheap roundnose available.



:headbang:

[AIRICCC]

if the car you drive has an LT1 in it, dont buy the msd lt1 pro-billet distributor... instead... www.dynaspark.net... if you ride a superjet/blaster/sxr/x2/fx1 then you get $100 off

[geraban19]

the point is i sent it to msd with full info on the problem. they sent it back 3 weeks later saying it was fine. when tj called them back to ask how it was good to go. they said they don't have away to test my problem. they only have a bench and electric meters. they don't even have access to a boat or motor to test with.

point is then why does it take 3 weeks to get it back and why bother having me send it in at all in the first place.

has anyone ever experienced this type problem before, not from msd (company) but from the enhancer.

i have pretty much had it with this 10 hr. old motor. i am probably going to pull the motor and have the cylinder ported. then i will put it back together with a new stator and starter and start all over again.

i keeping thinking that somethin in my electrical is bad, but we can't find it.

Correct. This is the point for sure...

I think they also changed the wires a couple years ago.

Try it.

Gera

[Bonzia Bob]

i can kinda see msd's point on this.......what are the chances 5 enhancers they send you are bad.
MSD, dosent that stand for my sh!t dosent run?:bigeyes:

[Idok]

it appears we as a group have done more test with msd products than they have

if i was not such a cheap f-er, i would just call wax and get his unit.

good thing it is a just play boat. i am taking the cylinder off tonight or tomorrow and gonna let tj freestyle port it. the boat feels sluggish anyway.


by the way i am pretty sure i sold my sxr, anybody got a cheap roundnose available.

right along with an inexpensive lamey..:biggrin:




talk to jamnjetski.....:bigeyes: :sneaky: :rolleyes: :biggthumpup:

[godocgo]

lamey just raised his prices again

[Idok]

probably because of this site!!!!!

[godocgo]

nah some crap about the cost of materials going up, especially the sleeves.

i am still waiting for my new one. i am going to run it this time with kawi flattops. cheaper and more reliable.

[Big Kahuna]

Hey Lee, Sorry I never saw this post.............. I had the same problem..........

Reverse the White Wires...........

[godocgo]

that was not the problem, it ended up being the starter was draining to much juice i think.. once i replaced the starter it let the cdi spark again. we will see, the maiden voyage of this boat will be at myrtle beach, that is if the surf is going. otherwise i will race the ss boat.

[Big Kahuna]

mine was doing the let off the button trick where it would through the spark when you let off. swapped the wires and it started sparking like normal.

[hangtime]

mine was doing the let off the button trick where it would through the spark when you let off. swapped the wires and it started sparking like normal.



Mine did the same thing cause it was hooked up wrong .
It made the biggest backfire I have ever heard but didn't destroy anything :biggrin:

[sjetrider]

well on my setup it is pretty much impossible to f-it up. you can only connect each wire to the correct wire because of the terminal ends.

my problem is i only get a spark when i let off the start button. if the boat catches and runs it runs fine. but other than that it just sparks only when you let go of the start button. i had tj spend 4 hrs going over every possible thing he could think of, he bypassed the start stop, he grounded the boat directly etc, etc. everything leads to the cdi.

but if you put a stock cdi in it sparks like normal. you tell me what the problem is?


IT ENDED UP BEING MY START STOP SWITCH, and yes it worked fine with stock CDI too. Dont ask me how but it did. Might be worth looking into.

[sjetrider]

IT ENDED UP BEING MY START STOP SWITCH, and yes it worked fine with stock CDI too. Dont ask me how but it did. Might be worth looking into.

mine was doing it on an existing MSD enhancer and I thought enhancer was bad. Switching wires makes sense though because it would do the same thing as start stop switch being bad.

[keefer]

IT ENDED UP BEING MY START STOP SWITCH, and yes it worked fine with stock CDI too. Dont ask me how but it did. Might be worth looking into.

i had tj spend 4 hrs going over every possible thing he could think of, he bypassed the start stop, he grounded the boat directly etc, etc. everything leads to the cdi.

He has bypassed the start / stop and it did not fix it. A couple of post ago he found that it was a failing starter motor that was pulling down the voltage when cranking. This must have caused the borderline situation where the MSD would not work due to low voltage but a stock CDI would fire. I will bet there is a weak ground in the loop somewhere also. If the voltage drops below 10.5 or so then you start getting into circuits behaving badly....

[Gilligan]

I had the same issue with mine last summer. I bought it new in June installed it and it did the "spark as you let go syndrome" unhooked and tried again. Same thing. So after getting an RMA # and their :bs2: I packaged it up in the original box and sent it all back to them get it back (in July) and it is just the enhacer. No instuctions and NO hardware Took me calling them twice just to get the hardware. So needless to say It is just sitting on a shelf in the garage.

Did someone from Vilder go to work at MSD or was it someone from factory fire's deptment?

[hangtime]

I had the same issue and it was because it was hooked up wrong .
Check and double check your connections .

I hooked mine up with the JSS battery stud kit and got one of the red wires mixed up under the pile of wires and never hooked it up .
Works mint when hooked up correctly :biggthumpup:

[Mouthfulloflake]

mine was doing the let off the button trick where it would through the spark when you let off. swapped the wires and it started sparking like normal.

thanks for that tip!

Im going to try it .

my msd box that got drowned last fall stopped working, and would only fire when you let off.

I swapped it out, but still have it, I will try swapping the white wires and trying it again.

I need to find a schematic and see how that helps though?

[Mouthfulloflake]

according to this diagram, one white wire is from the stator plate, and one from the start stop switch.

IM not sure how switching them would fix anything?

I wonder if simply the act of disconnecting them, and reconnecting them would have the same outcome?

[Matt_E]

If it works like I think it does, it wouldn't matter at all. They probably use the lanyard kill switch to interrupt the pulse signal from the stator. Polarity should be irrelevant.
Maybe not?

[Mouthfulloflake]

If it works like I think it does, it wouldn't matter at all. They probably use the lanyard kill switch to interrupt the pulse signal from the stator. Polarity should be irrelevant.
Maybe not?

thats what I am thinking, I just wonder if that 4-5 volts is so little potential that any corrosion or resistance in those connections will make it intermittant.

and simply unhooking them, and plugging them back in buys it some more run time.

[superramjet]

I've mis-diagnosed an ignition one time because the power wire coming off the main positive cable had broken inside the shrinkwrap and corroded. The msd pulls power off that while the oem cdi does not. It wouldn't fire with the msd but if I put in the oem one it would run. I've also had to make a jumper wire for the white wire. You've probably checked that but I thought I'd let you know.

[Gilligan]

okay I have installed the "fixed one" and same thing. Only sparks when you let off. I tried switching the white wires with no luck...I even disconnected all of the white wires and had the same exact outcome.

I would say it may be the start/stop switch, but I replaced it last summer with a new unit.

Any other ideas? I am getting ready to go pull it and box it back up so I will try anything.

[keefer]

Take a volt meter and test the red pigtail wire that comes off of the red battery cable that is attached to the solenoid. Ground the meter from the ground lug inside of the elec. box. You should get the same voltage as you would measuring across the battery. If not then you have either a bad ground wire or bad pigtail off of the main hot. You can test the ground by moving the meters negative test lead to the negative post of the battery. If it now tests good, then the black wire from the stator is not making connection somewhere. Like superramjet said, the MSD runs off the battery voltage and not the stator. I had a blaster that was freaky and it ended up being the ground wire from the battery to the engine block being corroded and providing a weak ground. I have had my enhancer for nearly 10 years and it is running strong. I find it hard to believe that they would send out multiple bad units. MSD's customer support reps are not much in the personality department but in think the product is solid IMO.

[Gilligan]

I cleaned all of the grounds in the box. I will need to pull the engine later this week to see if the main ground is loose. I will check it with voltmeter at that time.

I may try to put it in the blaster since I have hooked and unhooked it 6 times in the last 2 days.

Thanks for the help.

[Gilligan]

I installed it in two skis one with a msd currently in it and one with the stock cdi. And it was the same outcome with both skis. So I am conviced it is the unit.

One thing I have learned is that if the white wires are left unhooked it still does the same exact thing.

[Mouthfulloflake]

gilligan, what are your plans for the bum unit?

Id love to tear an enhancer apart.

[Matt_E]

x2

[Gilligan]

I plan on sending it back to them. I really don't know I am so mad I could probably throw it to them!

[waxhead]

I have pulled one apart
they are alot different than a stock one with some big ass capcitators in there

It took ages to do it

[Mouthfulloflake]

I have pulled one apart
they are alot different than a stock one with some big ass capcitators in there

It took ages to do it

did you put it in an oven and let it melt?

[waxhead]

i picked at it will a scriber
it just broke away slowly

[gorilla]

ok, so if they have 2 white wires with no black trace or other color'd traced wires, what's the connection ???

which white goes where ???

i got one of those in the garage too.

gorilla