3 Degrees in the right direction?

[Air Gramps]

I heard for a while, advance the timing 3 degrees.

Does this sound right and advanced by rotating the pickup CCW.

I have a cut head.
Mild Exhaust porting on 62T jugs, with the intake opened and the sleave cut back in the intake side at the cases..
Pistons 82.5mm
Riva red pipe.
Carbs jetted w/130H and 120 lows.

[Matt_E]

Yes, advance is to the right....you'll notice that one mark is further away from the two others. The center mark is TDC, and the further one is BTDC

[Air Gramps]

Yes, advance is to the right....

Just checking... You mean "Advance to the right on the underside" = CCW cause I rotated it to the left.

Thanks.

Do you know the jug to case bolt torque specs too?

[waxhead]

in my op you are asking to blow your engine up
the riva red has a smal stinger and already runs the back of the pistons hot and now you are throwing more timing at it
not a good thing in my mind

[orange flattop freestyler]

Agree with Wax here dude,

Advancing static timing on an engine not setup for it is bad news IMO.

It will end in tears........ trust :(

[Air Gramps]

do i want any advance? 1 or 2 degrees?

[waxhead]

i wouldnt
some people say ok
if you are not planing on holding your engine flat out then maybe it will be ok

[orange flattop freestyler]

I personally wouldnt at all to be honest.

If you really want to advance id use an aftermarket progamable ignition, like the wax racing one for example.

These are digital and can dail in heaps of advance where you want it but then retard the timing up the rev range to reduce/ eliminate any det.

This will provide you with a much bigger gain than what you were planning to do and will be safe at the same time.

[waxhead]

i agree a ignition unit where you can retard the timing up top and set it up for your own boat is by far a much better way of making your ski have the best of both worlds

[Air Gramps]

Thanks...

I knew I couldn't run wide open, only 1-2 second shots. Trying to make it for the surf and the hole shot.

I was hoping to get by on a budget and didn't want to get the programable ignition yet.... This engine job started as a simple hull painting, but when I pulled the motor, found the piston took a hit. It has couched up a few more $'s then expected. :17:

[orange flattop freestyler]

^^^^

Dont think you'd enjoy spending even more cash fixing it again by taking the "budget" route.

[LBE]

Thanks...

I knew I couldn't run wide open, only 1-2 second shots. Trying to make it for the surf and the hole shot.

I was hoping to get by on a budget and didn't want to get the programable ignition yet.... This engine job started as a simple hull painting, but when I pulled the motor, found the piston took a hit. It has couched up a few more $'s then expected. :17:
Sounds terribly familliar.
Just FYI: 1mm=1 degree of timing.

[Yamah0]

Where does one buy a degree wheel?

[waxhead]

http://www.tavia.com/free_degree_wheel.html

print this put carboard on the back and your done

[Yamah0]

Brilliant... now all i need is to know how to use it correctly to set my timing.. anyone?:)

[waxhead]

align the marks on the cases and leave it at that
you will be fine

[orange flattop freestyler]

Buy a proper ignition!!!!!!!




or advance it and get your credit card out for when your pistons look like they've been shot blasted :biggrin:

[freestylegeek]

I've been running 3 degrees advance on all my motors (ported stock cylinder w/ domed pistons, and flat-top Lamey) and I've seen no signs of detonation. I usually do top-ends around 40 hours. I had a red RIVA pipe for one season when I first started, but have been running a 'b' pipe for the rest of the time.
My ignition is a modified (no rev limiter) 62T CDI, and I'm running a 61x stator and flywheel.
After looking at the MSD enhancer vs Stock timing curves, the advance would only effect it way up high.

Any thoughts fellas?

[Yamah0]

align the marks on the cases and leave it at that
you will be fine


Thanx Waxhead.

So i should be fine without using the degree wheel and just align the two marks?

Zane...

[waxhead]

yes that will work well

[jeepmark4x4]

This is an oooolllddd thread but I'm doing some last minute tune ups to my 61x...

I'm running a stock 61x that I just put together and wish to get alittle more UGH out of it for the Daytona ride. I heard to move the stator plate clockwise to advance the timing but I have been reading to move it CCW. Just want to clear some stuff up before i take the timing light to it.

I want bottom end! No high end runs

Im running:
stock 61x with 650 electronics that has the lower rev limiter
Caufman sizzler pipe.

[jeepmark4x4]

\Ive had a few nati's and I am willing to try something ccaarazzyyy, wow its late

[QJS]

CCW to advance the timing.
Chris.

[Mouthfulloflake]

Hey Jeep mark,

I want to know how this works out, as ive got a similat set up that hasnt been ran yet.



This is an oooolllddd thread but I'm doing some last minute tune ups to my 61x...

I'm running a stock 61x that I just put together and wish to get alittle more UGH out of it for the Daytona ride. I heard to move the stator plate clockwise to advance the timing but I have been reading to move it CCW. Just want to clear some stuff up before i take the timing light to it.

I want bottom end! No high end runs

Im running:
stock 61x with 650 electronics that has the lower rev limiter
Caufman sizzler pipe.

[Idok]

static advance is a great mod!!!!

[accbr]

This is an oooolllddd thread but I'm doing some last minute tune ups to my 61x...

I'm running a stock 61x that I just put together and wish to get alittle more UGH out of it for the Daytona ride. I heard to move the stator plate clockwise to advance the timing but I have been reading to move it CCW. Just want to clear some stuff up before i take the timing light to it.

I want bottom end! No high end runs

Im running:
stock 61x with 650 electronics that has the lower rev limiter
Caufman sizzler pipe.

I have the same setup except I ported the cylinder. I advanced the timing 3 degrees. I've put a few tanks through it without any problems. I don't make many long WOT runs on it though. Never tried it without the advance. I set it that way when I built the motor.

edit - took the top end off this past week, and it looks fine.

[chrisdoc0608]

know its an old thread, but whats the final verdict on timing advance? i may do this on my 701 build.

[Mouthfulloflake]

its been advanced, with MSD enhancer even, and FINE on my 650 powered boat for a long time now.

sorry no report on a 701 engined ride.

[chrisdoc0608]

ok so counter clock wise 3 degrees.... what did you use to measure the degree marks? ive got one of the degree wheels for the seapoos wonder if i could use that. oh yea, and what exactly does it mean by advance timing, does that mean spark earlier?

[crab]

http://www.tavia.com/free_degree_wheel.html

print this put carboard on the back and your done

An old CD works well also.

[chrisdoc0608]

cool, but still courious as to what advanced timing means... i was under the impression that it is fireing of the cylinder earlier than stock settings... how does this relate to performance.. better acceleration, more power.. how noticeable is it.

[SJet]

So, is the pic at the start of this thread showing advanced timing?

[chrisdoc0608]

yes, the mark on the stator is stock settings, it is turned counter clockwise to advance.

[Roo]

how does this relate to performance.. better acceleration, more power.. how noticeable is it.

2nd.

my flywheel cover is coming off tomorrow :sneaky:

[chrisdoc0608]

haha im gonna do it as soon as i get my flywheel sent off to lpw... im hoping for some very nice noticable power after these two things and a bored nozzle.

[Mouthfulloflake]

you will for sure notice all 3 of those things combined.

careful though, you can no longer clamp the throttle and run WTFO if you any compression, RPMS, or lean-ness.. issues.






haha im gonna do it as soon as i get my flywheel sent off to lpw... im hoping for some very nice noticable power after these two things and a bored nozzle.

[Roo]

for what its worth...

all i can say is wow!!! i jumped into this today... took the flywheel off and i actually had the stator retarding the timing! brought it back to the dash mark, then +3 degrees and damn, there was the extra little umph i needed!

i am on a small in land lake and only do freestyle - never any WOT runs.

[chrisdoc0608]

so it was very noticeable?

[chrisdoc0608]

so is there anything i can do to find out how long i can punch the throttle like if i want to chase down a boat or something like that... also what do you guys do about riding to your riding spot? just keep it at like 3/4 throttle or something?

[Mouthfulloflake]

have you ever ridden a stand up?

I hardly ever cruise at more than 40% or so throttle, always blipping it, slowly up to a wave, turn, carve, wave, a few seconds of WOT limit is NOT an issue at all to me?

[chrisdoc0608]

lmao... YES i have ridden a stand up.... i dont think i would be trying to modify something if i had never rode it... but anyway, when i cruise i guess i keep it around 50% throttle, and when i go to jump i blip the throttle then punch it as i get into the wave... just wanted to know if there was anyway of telling how long you can run at wot.

[Mouthfulloflake]

there is a tried and tru fool proof method.

fill the tank with 87 octane fuel.

hold it wideopen until it gradually slows down and dies.

refill tank with 91-93 octane, hold it wide open for less time.

:beerchug:

lmao... YES i have ridden a stand up.... i dont think i would be trying to modify something if i had never rode it... but anyway, when i cruise i guess i keep it around 50% throttle, and when i go to jump i blip the throttle then punch it as i get into the wave... just wanted to know if there was anyway of telling how long you can run at wot.

[chrisdoc0608]

that doesnt sound too safe.... using advanced timing with lower octane... doesnt that = deto?

[DR3]

have you ever ridden a stand up?

I hardly ever cruise at more than 40% or so throttle, always blipping it, slowly up to a wave, turn, carve, wave, a few seconds of WOT limit is NOT an issue at all to me?

i run WOT when we go down to the bars on the water in clearwater to pick up the ladies:naughty::beerchug:

[keefer]

there is a tried and tru fool proof method.

fill the tank with 87 octane fuel.

hold it wideopen until it gradually slows down and dies.

refill tank with 91-93 octane, hold it wide open for less time.

:beerchug:

:haha::haha::haha:Bwahhahhaahhaa:smashfreakB:

[Speedfreak]

there is a tried and tru fool proof method.
fill the tank with 87 octane fuel.
hold it wideopen until it gradually slows down and dies.
refill tank with 91-93 octane, hold it wide open for less time.
:beerchug:

He forgot to add somewhere between it slowing down and dieing and filling with 93 octane that you will be placing a piston order.

[chrisdoc0608]

yea thats what i thought.... smartass ahahaha

[Boris]

I would like to try this but I do run WOT and need to keep this motor running until Chucky finishes my 701.
Since we have no surf I like to pin the gas and hold on as long as I can. It's a cheap thrill kind of like the one kids get from spinning around and around and around till they get a head spin.

So anyway, with 175 psi in my 650. Would I be pushing my luck ?

[chrisdoc0608]

thats what im running right now as well.... if anything im gonna do it when i get my flywheel lightened by paul and just be cautious i guess. do you have to readjust the carb after doing this?

[Speedfreak]

No carb adjustment needed just keep an eye on the plugs and piston tops and you can tell what is going on inside your motor. If you see any kinds of deto then consider your self lucky that you caught it early enough that you didn't have to order pistons. I would be careful at first and look but I would say that it would be just fine to hold it WOT all day on 175 PSI. I would do it on my ski but don't trust my word for it.

[Mouthfulloflake]

hmmm

im running a 650 too right now.

180 compression, msd enhancer, static advance ( eyeballed ), 12/15 impeller, msd rev limit is the max ( and it goes there)

I even ran some 87 octane gas this weekend, no damage...
just FEW WOT spurts.

my opinion is if you can hold the throttle wideopen for long, you either have TOO glass-like water, or you need more power.

:Banane35:

I would like to try this but I do run WOT and need to keep this motor running until Chucky finishes my 701.
Since we have no surf I like to pin the gas and hold on as long as I can. It's a cheap thrill kind of like the one kids get from spinning around and around and around till they get a head spin.

So anyway, with 175 psi in my 650. Would I be pushing my luck ?

[Boris]

my opinion is if you can hold the throttle wideopen for long, you either have TOO glass-like water, or you need more power.

:Banane35:


In my opinion I lack power.
I can keep up with slower couches in the gulf (bad habit leftover from my "go fast in a straight line" days), those pu$$ies back out in chop as soon as their a$$es bounce on the seat.

I guess I should man up and give this a try. If I blow up I'll just have to bug Chucky to finish my 701.

So, 3 degrees is best ?

[chrisdoc0608]

why does having a b pipe make a diff? does that mean that its not as good of an idea with my coffman?

[Mouthfulloflake]

THis is absolutely true.

its also why I attempted to make a joke of the "method" used to find how long you can hold it WOT

you wont know, you simply have been warned, that advanced timing, big RPMS, fuel octane and compression, can make an engine MORE likely to blow up than stock configurations.


ive held it wide open a few times, well, many times chasing down boats or just trying to have some fun. it's no big deal if you have a bpipe imho. my compression is around 180-185 and i have a 3 degree static advance with an msd enhancer. it's no sledge hammer, but it's a fun motor for sure. also, i'm running yamaslut's old 82mm team scream cylinder.

i think people get hung up/dwell on too many details/myths on the internet sometimes.

i mean, seriously, there are probably 1,000,000 different ways/reasons to blow a motor...

[chrisdoc0608]

well thanks for the help guys, im gonna give it a try as soon as my flywheel gets lightened... i am expecting to see some very noticable difference after doing both.

[Idok]

ive held it wide open a few times, well, many times chasing down boats or just trying to have some fun. it's no big deal if you have a bpipe imho. my compression is around 180-185 and i have a 3 degree static advance with an msd enhancer. it's no sledge hammer, but it's a fun motor for sure. also, i'm running yamaslut's old 82mm team scream cylinder.

i think people get hung up/dwell on too many details/myths on the internet sometimes.

i mean, seriously, there are probably 1,000,000 different ways/reasons to blow a motor...


x2!

i set all mine up with the same....3mm CCW..stock or msd enhancer, you choose

:usa2:

[Roo]

when my stator was rebuilt by Jetski Solutions, they included a set of these babies:

http://www.jetskisolutions.com/images/stator_washers.jpg

http://www.jetskisolutions.com/images/stator_washers_installed_01.jpg

there site lists they are cut to adjust -/+4 Degrees of timing.

mine looks like they are cut for more adjustment... wondering what other peoples experience is.